Coaching Fundamentals: Defining a Coaching Relationship - Part 2

Building a Coaching Culture - #100: Coaching Fundamentals: Defining a Coaching Relationship === J.R. Flatter [00:00:45]: Hey. Welcome back, everybody. JR Flatter here, and this is our podcast, Building a Coaching Culture. And it's still relatively new in the new year. And so Lucas and I hey, Lucas. How are you doing? Lucas Flatter [00:00:59]: Good. J.R. Flatter [00:01:00]: Are doing a review of the fundamentals, and this session will be A little bit of celebration. It's our 100th episode. That's incredible. I can't imagine. But the topic is ethics and core values of coaching. So the last session we did was an introduction to coaching. What is it? What isn't it? Talked a little bit about the competencies, but now we're really gonna jump into a formal introduction to the ethics and core values. And to remind everyone, we align ourself to the International Coaching Federation, and so the ethics and core values that we show in this session are going to be the ethics and core values of International Coaching Federation. J.R. Flatter [00:01:46]: We believe in them. We teach them. We coached them, so it's only appropriate that we use them to teach to educate. So as always, the 2nd deck of every slide deck we use is about mindfulness. So before you started listening to the session or watching this session, you were doing something else, probably earning your living, relaxing, maybe spending time with your partner, your children, your grandchildren. We wanna take a minute and stop doing all of that, and get ready to learn, get ready to grow, and remind ourselves to be present in the moment. We're humans. Our mind is gonna wander. J.R. Flatter [00:02:29]: We just keep reminding ourselves, come back to the session. When we're coaching, when I'm teaching, my mind wanders, and I remind myself to come back. All of these core values in ethics are found on the International Coach federation's website. When you do any search of International Coach Federation, it'll pop up. And so this session is meant for familiarity. I'm also a trained coach assessor. And when we learn how to assess student coaches, The level that we're asked for this in the core competencies, it talks about, in core competency number 1, The Ethics of Training and Core Competency 2, keeping a coaching mindset, both of which are relevant to these familiarities with these core values and ethics. So our goal here, our objective here in this session is that you're familiar with them. J.R. Flatter [00:03:29]: You don't have to memorize them. We would never ask you to memorize any of this content, but to just be familiar that you know when you're in a coaching mindset. You know you're within the boundaries of coaching. You haven't snuck over to mentoring or snuck over to therapy or any other skill set, that you're in a coaching place. The International Coaching Federation, by its name, is a global organization, and so we run across many different ethnicities, many different cultures, any way that you wanna slice and dice, the population of the Earth, All the above are going to come into your world as a coach, and these core values are written to be meaningful across all of those demographics. So there are no set asides. You'll know when you are an art. I, as a coach assessor, am doing my best to observe when you are within the ethics and core values and comment on and celebrate if you are within and comment on and educate if you've wandered outside of the ethics and core values. J.R. Flatter [00:04:51]: When I assess you, it's a yes or a no. There is no scale that I measure you by. It's either I did observe you being ethically within the bounds of the ethics, and I did observe you within the bounds of the core values. And I was always I put my professor hat on at least once a session and talk about the difference between ethics and morality. The m in morality belongs to me, so I own my morality. And I live my life the way I live it based on my morality. As I raised my children and participating in raising my grandchildren, We have morals as a family. Each individual comes to the family with their own set of morals. J.R. Flatter [00:05:41]: When you combine those into the family, it becomes the ethics of the family. When we talk about a particular organization, let's say you wanted to work at Flatter Flatter has ethics and core values that apply to the organization If you belong to a particular church or soccer league or swim club, they have ethics and core values, almost certainly. They might call them something a little different, and I certainly don't wanna split that academic here. But when we decide to work together, Lucas and I work together, We're also part of the same family. We share ethics at work. Here's the do's and don'ts at our workplace, and here's the do's and don'ts of our family, even though we all have our own set of morals. The same applies to the ethics of the ICF. If you wanna be an accredited coach through the ICF, you tell yourself, and you tell the world, and then you demonstrate to the world, that you're living within these ethics and core values? I'll pause there, and from a global perspective? How do you think about the ethics and core values as you coach and educate? Lucas Flatter [00:07:01]: Yeah. I mean, I think This kind of sets the stage and sets up the standard for having a coach that It's not just somebody off the street necessarily. Not that, like, anybody can't be a good coach, but there are professionals that say they're coaches that might you know, you pay for an hour, and it's just kind of an hour long hangout session or An hour long mentoring session or, you know, something that's not relevant to what we're really trying to drive home. So I think ICF does a good job of kind of really defining this so there's no question of, oh, was that a good coach that I just experienced? Or, you know, maybe I need to find somebody that has a an accreditation. J.R. Flatter [00:07:47]: No. That's a great point. And there are some fundamentals of the fundamentals, and, One of the fundamentals that are embedded in the competencies that we'll talk about, who's in charge? And if I'm in charge as a coach, I'm not coaching. If I'm not looking forward in helping you grow, I'm not coaching. Leaders will often ask you and sometimes beg you for your advice, your mentorship. And neither of those are bad things, but they're not coaching. And so if you really become familiar with the core values and ethics, you'll know where those boundaries are. In this next section, we'll talk about some of the definitions in coaching because it is a different language as we go through these fundamentals together over the next several sessions. J.R. Flatter [00:08:39]: There is a different language that we're speaking, And so we're just gonna put some of those in the room, and we'll talk about the room in the coming session in great detail. That's part of our methodology. We talk about a coaching room, and we talk about leaders. The ICF calls them clients. I find that a bit cold, but a client signs the invoice and pays the invoice. And so in some sense, ultimately, Everyone who comes into our coaching world is a client in some way. We prefer to call them leaders because we educate and coach leaders primarily. You can put whatever descriptor you want in front of that. J.R. Flatter [00:09:22]: You hear about life coaching. You hear about business coaching, lifestyle coaching, any number of descriptors can be put in front of that, primarily you and I focus on. And the The skills that we teach are relevant to any of those because coaching is coaching irrespective of where you focus it, on whom you focus it. They have a definition of coaching. The ICF has a definition of coaching, and I love that it talks about partnering because it is a partnership. And in partnerships, you have known responsibilities with our leaders in thought provoking and creative process. So as we dig into the competencies, you are going to find thought provoking, primarily in competency 7 and growth and competency 8, but it's embedded implicitly across all of the competencies. And we talk about the arc of a session, the arc of a coaching session, and not that it's meant to be linear. J.R. Flatter [00:10:29]: I don't wanna describe it as linear, but there is a beginning and there's an end to the session. The clock is not our friend. The calendar isn't our friend. And, usually, we're bounded by time in one manner or another, and we don't wanna leave our leaders hanging in any coaching session. And so we're watching the clock, and we're ensuring that we set a good baseline. In the beginning, we talk about the heart of the session in the heart of the session, and then we talk about where do we go from here as we start to close down and our minutes are ticking away. So that's a coaching session, and the ICF defines a coaching relationship also. And so the arc of the session is very similar to the arc of a relationship. J.R. Flatter [00:11:21]: It's just over time, much more time. And when we talk about sessions, we don't talk about time. I'll always, as part of the beginning of a session, talk about, You know, I'm bounded by the clock, and I have a hard stop at 0. We teach globally, so people are times. Also, we talk in the minutes of the hour rather than in the hour. And if I have a hard stop at 0, I'll I'll let them know. If I have a soft stop where I don't have any commitment beyond our scheduled time, I'll let them know if we need extra time. We have it. J.R. Flatter [00:11:57]: One of the biggest mistakes I see from new coaches is they'll get to, you know, five zero, and they started at 0, and they okay. We have 10 minutes left. What do we wanna do now? The right thing to do is celebrate and go home, probably. But the coaching relationship offers a lot more flexibility because you have more time. And so when we're in our precoaching relationship, we're talking business, and we're talking about what are the boundaries of coaching, what is and isn't it, kinda like, you know, previous session with an introduction to coaching. Well, each leader that you coach and every leader that we educate, We have to introduce them to coaching. And what isn't, what isn't it, that's all precoaching. But once you start that coaching relationship, You've started in the arc. J.R. Flatter [00:12:47]: We know what that arc looks like. It's some number of weeks or some number of months in some defined number of sessions, almost always with the availability to extend. And if it's a sponsored relationship with a lot of coaching that you and I do is sponsored, which simply means the leader or coaching doesn't pay for the coaching. The sponsor pays for it. That sponsor, we have confidentiality within relationship, but we owe something back to the sponsor, growth, primarily your growth. And so that sponsor is always in the back of our mind across that coaching relationship. And if it's a sponsored environment, they've probably defined for me and you what it's gonna look like. I recommend a minimum of 12 sessions. J.R. Flatter [00:13:41]: I know some people use less. Some you could use a lot more. That's why I say as a minimum, for us to gain trust and safety, for us to really dig into the heart of our relationship, and for us to say with some clarity, where do you go from here? It's going to require 12 sessions at a minimum. And over time, I've learned every other week is a good pace for those 12 sessions. So if you wanna do easy math, that's a half a year. That's 6 months, 1 session every other week. 24 weeks is a half a year. If we skip couple sessions because of a holiday or some other reason, We still have a couple weeks to play with, but those same components are there. J.R. Flatter [00:14:32]: So in the beginning of our session, we set the baseline of what do we wanna accomplish in this session. Well, in the beginning of the relationship, as closely as we can define, what do you wanna walk away from this relationship with? And some people know very clearly, you know, I'm changing jobs. I'm getting promoted. They have very defined objectives. Some people will say, I don't know. And it's part of our skill set as a coach to help define across the relationship what we're gonna do together? What do you think about when you think about the entire relationship versus each session within that relationship? Lucas Flatter [00:15:10]: So, yeah, I guess we define coaching, and this is a dot that I just connected where It says coaching is a creative process. It's something that, you know, I've always I've been thinking like, oh, you know, I I resonate with This and and it is because of that similarity to other creative processes where you're using your imagination. You're building models, speaking in hypotheticals, using stories and anecdotes. And I think that thinking about it as a creative process, Then you can put an analogy like chapters and a book or episodes and a series. So, You know, each chapter has its own arc, but then the overall story has its own arc, you know? J.R. Flatter [00:16:00]: Yeah. And, you know, you and I continue to learn from each other, and I've just learned from you. There's some similarities between the art the so the right brain, the artistic brain, And anybody who's an artist, they have this fundamental set of skills. Like, you know how to play the chords where you know how to draw the picture. But if you draw the same portrait twice or play the same song twice, It's never gonna sound the same because your artistry is involved, and this right brain is interacting, but your left brain is interacting as well because It knows the chords. It knows the tempo. Next definition, confidentiality, and, this is really, really important. Competency 4, which we talk about in great detail, focuses entirely on trust and safety within the relationship within the session. J.R. Flatter [00:16:54]: And part of that trust and safety is, confidentiality. It's something you talk about precoaching. It's something you talk about during coaching, but it's not absolute. I mentioned the sponsor once already. You'll break that confidentiality by the rarest of exceptions, a harm to self harm to others, malicious intent toward the sponsor. If you said, as soon as this session's over, I'm gonna go smash my computer with a sledgehammer. We would talk about that in the session, and it might be one of those rare instances where I would break confidentiality. I would tell you first, and I think I can't continue this relationship with that. J.R. Flatter [00:17:37]: That's the rarest of exceptions. It's not something that I go around with a microscope looking for. I personally, knock on wood, have never had to break confidentiality because I was able to talk through it in the sessions using my skills as a coach. And I've had some pretty challenging conversations. The things that people the leaders you coach bring into the room or life changing, transformational, and often backward looking to the past, and they need to heal, or they need spiritual guidance, or I had someone bring into a coaching session. I've just decided since we last spoke to end my 17 year marriage, which is quite obviously not a coaching challenge. It's a lawyer challenge, perhaps a therapist challenge, perhaps marriage counselor challenge, but there's an opportunity to continue coaching as well. And that was my comment back to her. J.R. Flatter [00:18:52]: Obviously, I'm gonna maintain that confidentiality of that very sensitive topic you just brought here. Lucas Flatter [00:18:58]: You know? J.R. Flatter [00:18:58]: What other resources might be available to you? I'm obviously not a marriage counselor. I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a clergyman. Do you wanna continue coaching today and into the future. Central to coaching is to talk about and demonstrate confidentiality. One of our organizations that we work with, we're coaching their entire executive leadership team, and the same person is coaching the same coach is coaching a lot of different leaders. So across these 35 to 40 executives, we have 3 coaches, so you do the math. And also, we're coaching the apex of the pyramid, the boss of the bosses, if there was ever a hint that we snuck out side of the bounds of confidentiality, that entire project will crumble before our very eyes. J.R. Flatter [00:19:56]: So something that we have to be very purposeful about I'm very serious about. Where does confidentiality come in for you? Lucas Flatter [00:20:04]: So to get the best results out of this, Somebody has to be more forthright and forthcoming than they might be even with, you know, coworkers or people, like, even some friends. And So you're asking them to kinda take this armor off, take this filter off, then we say vulnerable all the time. But So you're asking them to become more vulnerable, take their armor off. And then if you go and, you know, use that against them or hurt them, then it's it's just antithetical against about what we're trying to do. J.R. Flatter [00:20:43]: Mhmm. Yeah. Absolutely. Next, conflict of interest. Just about every one of our listeners or viewers lives in the ethical, moral life as they would measure morality. And they're gonna know instinctively, you're going to know this conflict of interest here. At the end of the day, we're providing a service for a fee. Even if you're serving a nonprofit, what might be a conflict of interest that wasn't financially related could be a personal conflict of interest. J.R. Flatter [00:21:19]: Coaching your ex wife's boyfriend, probably not a good idea, and I'm being, you know, up stretching it to try to make a point, coaching to gain insight into some other area of your life that isn't related to the leader you're coaching. But it's one of those definitions that you'll know when you're at that boundary. And when you're first starting your hook your coaching practice, leaders are scarce, the phone's not ringing off the wall, and you're gonna have to look back to the ethics of core values and say, is this a relationship that I should engage in? Again, it's something we don't look at a microscope, but it's something that we have to be mindful of. Any thoughts on conflicts of interests? Lucas Flatter [00:22:08]: Yeah. I mean, just To go back to the last one, it's it's about kind of taking advantage of of that vulnerability. And And, you know, you can say, oh, I have ulterior motives. You know, I can benefit from this beyond just the fee that you're charging. Then, I guess, if you're getting benefit outside the fee, then it's kinda like you're stealing in a way. You know? Like, it's just Yeah. Just wrong. J.R. Flatter [00:22:34]: Yeah. And you're gonna know. Your gut's gonna tell you. 2 more, and then we'll move on. One of the core values or key definitions is equality. And anybody who looks at the 8,000,000,000 people in the world knows as a coach or even as a coaching organization, we're not we're not gonna create world equality. That's not what the ICF is asking of us. What the ICF is asking of us is to coach everyone equally. J.R. Flatter [00:23:05]: And so in the precoaching conversation, and we strongly recommend you put a coaching agreement in place, a written coaching agreement in place with everyone you coach. If you agree that within the bounds of the ethics of your organization and with the bounds of your own morality, you could coach this person, then you've agreed that you can coach them equally to anyone else that you would agree to coach. And there are a lot of intersections of morality that you might not be able to reconcile. It should be a pretty short list. I have my own list. I won't share it. It's very private, but there are do's and don'ts in my world. I was at a doctor's appointment this morning, and Some gentleman was just being absurdly rude to the receptionist. J.R. Flatter [00:24:01]: That guy was probably on my very short list of people. I don't treat people like that. Maybe you need to be at the top of the list, and so I would need to have a conversation with that person. So even, you know, world class Olympic level rudeness isn't on the list. Certainly something we would talk about in our coaching. But if you went a step beyond that and became violent with that person, the whole situation would change, and coaching would have been out the door, and other skill sets would have become relevant. I went this is one of the reasons that it's so important to have a frank, bold, clear conversation precoaching. We don't judge as coaches, but we also know that we live within the boundaries of our own morality. J.R. Flatter [00:24:48]: And, organizationally, we live within the boundaries of our ethics. And if in that discovery conversation or even along the the coaching journey, you discover one of those boundaries, one of the irreconcilable boundaries, you better first and foremost have a long discussion with yourself internal to your own mind. One of the things you'll learn on a coaching journey is to bask in the silence, because there's a lot of growth that takes place in silence, both for you as the coach and and the leader. But if you're thinking, this is a person that I can no longer coach, you better think long and hard about that. Of course, there are the rarest of exceptions, suicidal ideations, harm to others, malice to the sponsor of a of a magnificent level, not just I hate my boss, or I can't stand being around my coworkers, that that doesn't rise to the level of abandoning a leader, you better have a long conversation with yourself. What do you think about when you see the equality definition? Lucas Flatter [00:25:58]: I guess, Yeah. Like, on the surface, it's, you know, you shouldn't prejudge people, but then also, You kind of have to treat even if somebody looks the same or they have a similar background as their own individual, like, No 2 people are going to be the same, and so you shouldn't you should have that attitude at the beginning and then, you know, the superficial aspects sort of, you know, lifestyle aspects that should just be, you know, just not even a a real consideration. I guess the only thing, They brought to mind as well was I forget. We had a guest a couple weeks ago, and he mentioned the platinum rule being more applicable, the golden rule being Treat others how you wanna be treated, the platinum rule. Treat others how they wanna be treated. So maybe this particular individual, They wanna be treated in a certain way. And I think, like, that ethical boundary where maybe I'm just not gonna be able to coach this person. Can you treat them the way that they wanna be treated? And I think, generally, the answer is yes. J.R. Flatter [00:27:08]: Yeah. And I I would think in most instances, and I would say this about most isms, you could think of whatever ism you wanna put in front of that are projections. People are projecting their own challenges on someone else as the because of their situations. And so if you're thinking that this is a person I can't coach, it's probably you, and you need to think long and hard about, I'm on a coaching journey. I'm a coach. I'm adhering to the International Coaching Federation core values and ethics. I say all those things out loud, but do I really demonstrate them? If I abandon this leader, am I going to demonstrate the core values and the ethics of coaching. Last thing, internal coach versus external coach. J.R. Flatter [00:28:04]: If you're building a coaching culture, you're probably going to need both. So you and I coaching leader from outside the organization are gonna be external coaches. We're not gonna be part of the organization. We're brought in to coach. An internal coach could be in any number of capacities. It could be internal to the organization coaching full time. It could be internal to the organization coaching as a style of leadership or a hybrid of both, coaching some certain amount of time and and doing other functions the other amount of time. All of the core values and ethics apply to you whether you're internal or external. J.R. Flatter [00:28:51]: The confidentiality of the relationship is even more important because we all work together. You know, when I'm looking at the entire audience of executives, and I know I'm coaching this one and they have this challenge, and then coaching this one and they have a different childhood. I know all of those things as a coach, but none of that comes into a team coaching session unless it's thematic, and never do I break my confidentiality. Like, oh, yeah. You know, you were having the same challenge. Pete, what do you think? No. So you just need to be very mindful when you're an internal coach that you're maintaining that confidentiality. So I think you have experiences both. Lucas Flatter [00:29:35]: Yeah. And I guess, yeah, that aspect of you're not necessarily taking things, like, from your life and putting them on the coach or the client leader. So if I know the same person that you know, like, I'm not going to it's not beneficial for me to bring my conception of that person into the room? Like, let you define that, and I think that might be a challenge. J.R. Flatter [00:30:01]: Yeah. We're gonna talk about that a lot in the next session, and it is you've mentioned it twice in the last couple of minutes. Every human being is an individual with their own preferences and experiences and educational background and different ethnicities and all the above. And the core competencies actually ask us, Lucas Flatter [00:30:27]: you know, J.R. Flatter [00:30:27]: the who and the what, and the who is that individual human being. Am I coaching them and to be mindful of that? So jumping ahead to slide 7, the code of ethics. Again, familiarity and with reasonable confidence, all of our listeners and viewers live ethical lives. They're all part of organizations that have expectations of them. They live a moral life. They have expectations of themselves. So none of this is new, but each organization defines them a little bit differently. So I'll go through these 4 core values relatively quickly. J.R. Flatter [00:31:08]: Sort of seeking familiarity. The first is professionalism. So immediately, when we think of a professional, a vision pops into our mind, But with regard to coaching, it's that coaching mindset, which we'll talk about when we talk about competency too, encompasses responsibility, respect, integrity, competence, so competence is that you're at least familiar, and then excellence. So professionalism is demonstrating all of these responsibility to the leader you're coaching, responsibility to the sponsor, responsibility to the ICF, respect as a a fellow human being, irrespective of who that human being is. Integrity, so you're engaging with no conflicts of interest, competence, your familiar proficiency in all of the core values, ethics, and then excellence. You and I have said for you, 9 years, me, 22 years, excellence is our baseline. And in many ways, coaching excellence is your baseline. When I'm in the silence of my own thoughts asking what's the next powerful thing I could say or do, I'm rising I'm trying to rise to that level of lets. J.R. Flatter [00:32:33]: But it's not an okay question or an okay summarization. It's an excellent question and an excellent summarization. Secondly, collaboration, a commitment to developing social connection and community building. And so it is an international coaching federation. Our cohort is global, and as a coach or a coaching student, you'll have an opportunity and now an expectation to engage that global community, to engage in your community. If you talk about emotional intelligence, which is implicitly and explicitly part of coaching. It's all about building relationships with human beings. So that leader that I'm looking in at across the metaphorical table in the metaphorical coaching room, I'm doing my best to build a human to human connection with them, and that's part of the collaboration, humanity, a commitment to being humane, kind, compassionate, and respectful. J.R. Flatter [00:33:43]: The gentleman I was describing from this morning was certainly violating this, probably not a coach, probably not a human being that you wanna be part of their world. But if that leader walks into your room, and you agree you can coach them, you still have the expectation to be humane and kind and compassionate and respectful and grow them towards these ethics and core values. And finally, equity. This goes back to the conversation of the quality we had. A commitment to use coaching to explore and understand the needs of others so that you can practice. I think this is very important because in academia, practice means not taking golf swing, but it means demonstrating the core values of your profession. So as we're practicing the core values of coaching that we can create equality for all. And, again, across the 8,000,000,000 of us in the world, none of us are going to sit here and say, we're going to make all 8,000,000,000 of us equal. J.R. Flatter [00:34:56]: That's not what this is asking for. It's asking us to use our knowledge, skills, abilities, and experiences to everyone who comes into our coaching world, create equality for them. Who do you think about when you see this slide? Lucas Flatter [00:35:10]: I mean, I think it's helpful to look at this big picture, like, what does coaching contribute To the world and society at large. And this is what ICF is trying to kind of they're trying to change the world by promoting these values. I think with equity, what comes to mind is, like, it's not as simple as just treat like, and this goes back to what we said about the platinum rule. But It's not just, oh, I treat everybody ex exactly the same. But, for example, you could say, Oh, why did you have a 9 month, 8 10 month gap in your resume to every single person? But Maybe a woman might say, well, I was I was pregnant or you know? So, I was giving, like, that maternity leave. And so there's certain things that if I use the same treatment, it seems inequitable to certain people. So I guess By talking to all these people and getting all these different perspectives by coaching people, our goal should be to kind of notice those things more and try to be more equitable. Yeah. Lucas Flatter [00:36:22]: And I think, J.R. Flatter [00:36:23]: you know, going back to some of the definitions we were talking about, You're gonna know in your heart of hearts whether in fact you're demonstrating these core values. You know, the United States Supreme Court was asked to define pornography many years ago, maybe 50 years ago. And they said, we really can't define it, but we know it when we see it. In leadership, and in many ways is similar to that. Coaching in many ways is similar to that. These core values fall into that. Not a 100% sure how to define each of these, but I'll know when I see it. So ethical standards really quickly, they all begin with responsibility. J.R. Flatter [00:37:07]: We have a responsibility to the clients for coaching, responsibility to the practice and performance of coaching, again, in a business sense, in a relationship sense, not literally practicing guitar or practicing drawing, but to the practice of coaching, a responsibility to professionalism in responsibility to society. And if you look back at the core values and compare them to the ethical standards, they're they're quite similar, lot of the use of responsibility there. Closing thoughts. Lucas Flatter [00:37:42]: Yeah. I mean, I guess, if this can also be helpful for, Like, going backwards, you could start with these ethics, the the core values and the ethical standards and say, Like, what is coaching? Well, it's it's what you know, it's it's a relationship that gives responsibility to clients, responsibility to practice and performance professionalism in society. And then it also supports the values that we've talked about before. So Maybe you could use that to kinda guide, oh, is this a coaching conversation? Well, is it in the spirit of collaboration? Meaning, I'm letting the leader lead Lead the session. Am I being professional? Like, I mentioned at the very beginning, like, kind of somebody that's unprofessional or somebody that's not collaborating. So It's it's an interesting like, the more that you kinda learn about the ICF standards and everything, the clearer the picture of what is coaching and what's not coaching becomes, I think. J.R. Flatter [00:38:48]: Alright, my friend. I'll see you soon. Take care, everybody. Well, that concludes this episode of building a coaching culture. I truly hope that this episode was helpful to you. If it was, Be sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. Maybe stop and give us a rating or a review and share this podcast with someone who might find it helpful as well. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time.