Coaching in a Corporate Environment

Building a Coaching Culture - #108: Coaching in a Corporate Environment === J.R. Flatter [00:00:41]: Hey. Welcome back, everybody. It's JR Flatter here with my good friend, Lucas. I he's been thrashing me in the gym. I'm sore from head to toe. I'm telling myself it's the exercise, not my age. So this episode is all about coaching in a b to b environment, a corporate environment, whatever you choose to call, when you might be an internal coach, either as either as an employee or externally coaching in a complex organization. And what are some of the challenges associated with that? How might it differ from coaching what might be a b to c? You to an individual leader who's come to you. J.R. Flatter [00:01:25]: Several different labels you might apply in this scenario, but almost always in a b2b environment, business to business, in a corporate environment, in a complex organization, the leaders that come to you are sponsored, which means the the dollar is not coming out of their pocket for your services. If you're an internal coach, the organization's paying for both of you to be there. If you're an external coach coming into the organization and both kinds are valuable. This isn't an either or discussion. If you look at Peter Hawkins' book on creating a coaching culture, and I've seen this in practice. And so I agree with Peter wholeheartedly. You need both. You need external coaches that have objectivity, and you need internal coaches for affordability. J.R. Flatter [00:02:13]: And they already know your culture. They are operating within your ethics. They know your mission and vision. So there's a role for each. One of the, statistics that I've recently discovered, I may have mentioned it before in this podcast is 84% of all people are resistant to anything new. So the first challenge that comes to mind in coaching in a corporate environment is that 84 people out of every 100 that you encounter are are gonna be resistant to you being there in the first place. Who are you and what are you doing and why are you pulling away from my important tasks? And so it's your requirement as an ambassador of coaching to communicate the value. And the best way to communicate it is to demonstrate it. J.R. Flatter [00:02:58]: So a lot of the times when I'm coaching in a sponsored environment, I'll say, just stick with us for a few few sessions, and let's see what happens. Probably one of the best ways to get people up and over that curb to entry. And once you create discovery from them for them, they oftentimes can become your strongest advocate and will begin to communicate the value that you're going to deliver. Should one of their peers or direct reports or bosses think about starting coaching. So that's the first challenge that comes to mind. When you think about coaching in a sponsored environment, what comes to mind for you? Lucas Flatter [00:03:35]: Yeah. I'm thinking about that balance between kind of ingratiating yourself and, you know, becoming a resource that that they feel positive about. But then also, there's some value in being an outsider and not being, you know, immersed in the same problems that they're immersed in. You know, you can coach somebody that's in a different industry than you or, you know, different generation and all sorts of different demographics. So I guess you need to, you know, not be that scary outsider that's gonna, like, mess everything up. But there's also yeah. Yeah. There's value to to that perspective as well. J.R. Flatter [00:04:17]: Yeah. Absolutely. And we say all the time when you're selecting a coach, select someone that's as completely different from you as you can tolerate because you don't want them making assumptions that they know what it's like to be you. And there's this, you know, battle between empathy and objectivity. You do wanna be empathetic and do your best to put yourself in their shoes. But the moment you begin believing you understand what it's like to be them completely, then you've really overstepped in your empathy. So that as an objective outsider and we've got several case studies in our catalog of training exemplifying this very thing, putting people together who are polar opposites in every way and had very powerful coaching relationships. So the second thing that comes to mind, and again, the bow borrow this from Peter Hawkins, but I've seen it in action in my coaching practice in, you know, our coaching education programs is changing a culture and changing an organization really has to have support from top leadership. J.R. Flatter [00:05:30]: And it can start as a grassroots thing. So if you're, you know, an internal employee who is interested in coaching or you may have gotten a coaching accreditation and you wanna practice your skill set in the organization, you can do it in your microcosm of the organization. But if the if you wanna try to change the entire organization and build a classic coaching culture, you're gonna have to get the senior leadership on board. And so one of the challenges of coaching in a corporate environment is how do you get them to know you exist? Because the average person in a complex organization just can't email the CEO and say, hey. I got a great idea. That's not gonna happen. So breaking through to corporate decision makers is one of the bigger challenges, whether you're internal or external. And if you have a coaching practice, it's similar to any other business. J.R. Flatter [00:06:26]: Breaking through the noise. Somebody asked me a few days ago, how do I find that person? Like, you just asked the $1,000,000,000 question because if if we knew, we would have all of them in our in our, context, and we would be doing business with them. Lucas Flatter [00:06:45]: Think about, like, the different like, the phase approach to marketing where you've got your people that are just, oh, which coach am I gonna hire? Then there are people that have never heard about coaching. And then, you know, there's people that have heard about it, but they haven't decided that they're going to go with it. So just like the different levels of, like, decision making enough sales funnel kind of thing. But you've got that same thing within an organization where maybe, you know, one part of the leadership says, you know, I I see the value in coaching, but the other ones need more messaging around that. Yeah. I guess, like, how are you communicating to them and what resources are you providing and things like that? J.R. Flatter [00:07:34]: Yeah. There's an irony here in that so the 84% who are going to resist, the ones that are gonna resist the loudest are the ones that are gonna tell you they don't have time. And the irony is they're the ones who need coaching the most. And so you have that burden, that curb to entry to breakthrough, reading, the classic John Carr book, Leading Change. It's getting a little dated now. He said, find ways to celebrate short term victories. So if you're in a corporate environment, either as an outsider looking in or as an insider building your practice internally, you have to find some victories that you could celebrate and communicate. And in some ways, it's a bit of a chicken and egg. J.R. Flatter [00:08:17]: You're not gonna hire me because I don't have the experience, but I don't have experience because you won't hire me. I don't have success stories because you won't let me coach. And if I had the opportunity to coach, I would create success stories. So as we said earlier, there's many similarities between building a coaching practice and building any other business, any other practice. If you were a new dentist, if you were a new lawyer, if you're a new auto mechanic, whatever you might be your skill set, breaking into the marketplace and getting your voice heard is a classic challenge. You're jumping into a crowded marketplace. And even though in this global labor market of the 21st century, there's a huge shortage of labor, there's no shortage of coaches, and it's largely unaccredited. We do have, and you and I align ourselves with In and Out Coaching Federation, but there was a lot of people who were out there coaching. J.R. Flatter [00:09:15]: And so that creates suspicions, skepticism. It's largely undefined in the marketplace. What is coaching? If you asked 10 different leaders, you might get 10 different answers. It's a multigenerational labor force where, like, in any multigenerational organization, there are different expectations across different demographics. And so you're jumping into all of that like any other person who has value to add and needs to get their voice heard. And you just need to accept that and find ways to break through. Lucas Flatter [00:09:49]: What is the success story of, you know, coming into an organization, providing, coaching, what happens next, you know? And do you have that, you know, at least even if it's notional or imaginary? J.R. Flatter [00:10:04]: Yeah. So having done this many times, I think there is a good process that you could use if you're trying to break through. So irrespective of a corporate environment or not, it's really difficult for someone to understand the value that you can bring until they've learned about it, seen it, and give it. So it's probably becoming cliche that that's how we prefer to introduce coaching. Before they even think about hiring us as coaches, we want them to explore what is coaching, how do we approach it, and then what value would it be to them. And then the give pieces, they actually give each other coaching. It's really eye opening. Even before that, as you're trying to break in to any marketplace, any profession, There's an acronym that that I use very regularly when I'm mentoring and coaching, and it's AIR, advice, information, and referrals. J.R. Flatter [00:11:05]: And keep a very detailed journal about this journey and be disciplined about it and have this conversation many times a week. I'm trying to break into b to b coaching. What advice do you have for me? I'm brand new. What information do I need that I don't already have? What book should I read? What accreditation should I get? What course should I study? And then 3rd is referrals. Who should I talk to next? And you're doing 2 things simultaneously here. You're learning about what the marketplace wants and needs, but you're also building your network. And, ultimately, you're gonna have a conversation with someone who goes, wow. I need exactly what you're talking about. J.R. Flatter [00:11:54]: And it might appear a bit Machiavellian, but, you know, if you wanna be a business person and you wanna build a practice, you have to be unapologetic about the fact that that's what you're doing. And that's what the AIR is all about. You're not apologizing for the fact that you're trying to break in. You're not apologizing that you're brand new and don't know the ropes. And you're not apologizing. You don't know people that need your services yet, but that's why you're having the conversation. So that works really, really well. Like any other businesses, sweat equity. J.R. Flatter [00:12:28]: Are you willing to put in the time, do the work, continue growing, have a growth mindset, and and change assumptions as you learn and discover. Lucas Flatter [00:12:39]: Am I correct in the kind of understanding that, you know, you look at b2b and and it seems like, you know, our organization shakes hands with your organization, but ultimately it's you shake hands with the particular individual on their team. So in a way, like, you still need to have those personal connections and, you know, one on one time with people? J.R. Flatter [00:13:06]: Yeah. So sales is as much art as it is science. And it's we buy on emotion. And then we convince ourselves that we made it a rational decision in hindsight. And I mean as a species, not just you and I or or coaches or leaders of complex organizations, human beings, that's what we do. We make a decision and then we on emotion, and then we convince ourselves. So long way of saying you're absolutely right. You're gonna ultimately have to build a relationship with someone, human to human, get them to trust you and appreciate the value that you can bring, and then to take a leap of faith with you. J.R. Flatter [00:13:42]: And the higher they are in the organization, the quicker that'll be. But oftentimes, you can't get access to them Or perhaps you can't get access to them often enough to scale your business in the way that you wanna scale it. And so you're just gonna have to keep pounding on doors and keep having your AIR conversations. I mentioned, Brian, just about every time I talk, nail your niche, Great author and great coach. If you haven't read the book, strongly recommend you do. Everything you say or do from what I've learned from him and what I've done in my own our own practice is finding a QER, a quantifiable end result that you can communicate and demonstrate. So if I do trust you and allow you into my organization and I have to convince my boss and maybe even my boss's boss, what am I gonna tell them? Am I going to save money on recruiting because I'm gonna retain people? I'm gonna save money on training. Am I gonna increase productivity? You need to have that quantifiable result. J.R. Flatter [00:14:50]: And again, from Brian Elwood, he didn't make this up. This is a a standard of sales. If you're selling something, you're usually selling 1 of 3 things, love, health, or finances. It's gonna increase the amount of love in your life. It's going to improve your health, or it's gonna improve your finances. And so you need to pick the QER for your coaching practice and the b to b's that you're going to engage. And the AIR conversations will ironically begin to clarify that for you. If you have the courage to say I don't know in the AIRs, I don't know yet in the AIR conversations when people ask you questions, you're never gonna discover your QVR. J.R. Flatter [00:15:34]: And, you know, what fills your cup in your coaching practice? Lucas Flatter [00:15:40]: Yeah. I guess I'm trying to think about also, like, what happens if if somebody doesn't at least either develop their culture through coaching or, you know, what happens if they're not deliberate about it. And, yeah, like, here's what here's the QER if we do come and here's, you know, the doom and gloom and all the bad things that might happen if they don't come. J.R. Flatter [00:16:05]: Yeah. John Kelly wrote a book probably 8 years ago. One of the founders of Wired Magazine. Was it Paul Kelly? Yeah. I have John Kelly's on our team. Sorry. Paul Kelly. Twelve Inevidables of the Next 30 Years. J.R. Flatter [00:16:20]: And and I remember a couple of them really well. One of them was if you don't digitize, you're gonna be dead. Well, I would add a 13th on there. If you don't create a culture and culture, you're gonna evaporate simply because of the the circumstances of the world today and the globalization not not globalization. That's not the word I wanna use. The the fact that it is a global labor market and can be virtual and oftentimes is virtual. I mean, you and I have teammates all over the world, Philippines, Australia, United Kingdom, Ireland, Africa, all over the United States because of the circumstances of the 21st century. So if you think about it as an existential requirement, which I do, which our CEO does, which many of our customers do, it becomes a bit of a no brainer. J.R. Flatter [00:17:17]: All organizations need to be able to tell themselves and the world, how are we different? And if one of the ways you're different is, we're going to appreciate and support your personal and professional achievement across the time that you're here. And we recognize you might not be here forever. Those days are gone because of the rapidly changing world and technologies. I think part of the the value proposition of coaching in a corporate b to b environment is you, as part of the culture, instill in practice the idea of lifelong learning. Because the model of learn, work, and retire is gone. So when I got my undergraduate degree, there was every expectation that that degree would last me my lifetime, that I would be able to leverage the knowledge I got for the entirety of my career. Well, you, in Gen z's and Gen double a's, you don't have that expectation. And does the organization that you work for encourage and support that you need to be on a lifelong journey of learning. J.R. Flatter [00:18:37]: It's now learn, work, continual development, and maybe retire. Because all of us have the option not all of us. Sorry about that. A lot of us have the option of working as long as we'd like because we're not doing manual labor tasks. Lucas Flatter [00:18:55]: I was just thinking about there's a book in HBO show Generation Kill, and it's this Rolling Stone reporter that gets embedded in, like, a marine unit. And I'm thinking I was always like, why would they have let this, you know, hippie dippie rolling stones and that's in the book too. But it's like, they're gonna say whatever they're gonna say about you. Wouldn't you rather them, you know, hear it from, you know, directly from your organization? Your culture is gonna, you know, develop whether you are deliberate about developing it or not. J.R. Flatter [00:19:30]: Oh, yeah. The the world's telling a story about you whether you're influencing how they tell the story or not. And you're absolutely right. Wouldn't you wanna be the one being purposeful in influencing that story. So let's flip it around a little bit in the in the last few minutes here and talk about some of the benefits. We've talked entirely about the challenges in a b to b. So in a b to c, you convince 1 human being and you have one customer. And the process is going to be significantly shorter, probably, because you have to convince 1 human being who has the resources to pay for you, and you're on your way. J.R. Flatter [00:20:12]: And the average coach, and this comes straight from the ICF, has a dozen or so leaders in their portfolio at any given time. So that's not a very high burden to go out and find 12 human beings you can convince. And then simple economics, if a 13th person comes and you have your basket full with 12, you raise your rate. Right? Supply and demand. If your demand is higher than your supply, you raise the price. So instead of the dollar figure that you were charging with 12, you charge a premium and say, my calendar is really full, but I can squeeze you in. You never tell them what the old price was. You just tell them what the new price is. J.R. Flatter [00:20:58]: And then if a 14th one comes, you have attrition on one side because you finish with the coaching relationships. But the price stays at the price of the 13th one. And you fill your basket again with 13 at that rate, and you still have more supply than demand. More demand than supply. You raise it again. But eventually, you're the best coach in the world. There's only 2,000 work hours in a year. And if you're running your own business of those 2,000 hours in a year, you're gonna spend a great deal of that time pursuing new customers and a great deal of that time administering your business and the remainder actually coaching. J.R. Flatter [00:21:40]: So it's a finite mathematical equation as a solopreneur coaching. As an internal coach, you have the entirety of the organization available to you per the relationship you've built with the leaders of the organization or the decision makers in the organization. So in some ways, even though it's a longer sales process, coaching in a corporate environment, you have to sell once to have potential unlimited customers. And I think that's the primary main advantage. If you're coaching in a corporate environment, you're very likely going to be coaching the leadership team and participating in not pulling the levers of power, but helping the people who do discover what's right for them, what's next for them, how they can become the best leaders they can be. And so you have an influence across the enterprise. And again, this goes all the way back to when you're thinking about getting into coaching, what's your why? And a lot of us that are in coaching are service oriented. So we wanna serve people. J.R. Flatter [00:22:52]: We wanna help them become better at what they do. But then you decide to whom, and that's where Brian talks about nailing your niche. And you decide when you decide you're whom, your QER, how are they quantifiably different when you're finished with them? And we all have different whys, and we all have different to whom's, and we all have different QERs. And so what's right for 1 might not be right for another. So a lot of coaches prefer b to c. I've got my basket of customers. One drops off, I'm gonna go find another. If I get too many people, I could think about raising my rates. J.R. Flatter [00:23:33]: I'm very happy. Another coach is building a coaching practice might prefer to work in the b to b corporate environment. There's more continuity, perhaps. You know that the customers are gonna be able to afford your services. Hopefully, you put a contract in place that has some sort of predictability of what the next year looks like. I suspect the rates in b to c might be just a smidge higher than in a b to b environment because there's a risk work reward continuum with regard to rates. The more you risk, the more you expect to be rewarded. So if you're coaching in a b to b environment, you have that predictability, and you have that assurity, and you have that volume, it's it's very likely gonna be drive your rates down a little bit. J.R. Flatter [00:24:21]: I don't think significantly. And you can coach more people. Once you've won that b to b, you're no longer pursuing work. And so that amount of your day can be dedicated to coaching instead of pursuit of other work. But it's a very personal decision. Hey, look. Closing thoughts as we head out. Lucas Flatter [00:24:39]: Just the fact that, also these businesses have missions and then it's very likely that, you know, you're aligned with the mission or at least maybe not very likely, but maybe it's more attractive to find organizations where you are aligned with their mission. And then that's a whole another reward that, you know, you're helping them accomplish something that you believe in. J.R. Flatter [00:25:03]: Yeah. That's a great point. And so one of the the things that I've discovered in the last year is noun descriptors in front of coach. You can put countless noun descriptors in front of coach. I'm a leadership coach. I'm an executive coach. I'm a b to b coach. I'm a life coach. J.R. Flatter [00:25:24]: I'm a fitness coach. I'm a health coach. The fundamentals of coaching are exactly the same irrespective of what noun descriptor you choose to put in in the noun descriptor influences your niche. It influences your QER. And so you may very well decide my niche is comes with a noun descriptor. I'm a dental practice owner coach. I'm an auto mechanic shop owner coach. And the more narrow you have the courage to define that niche, the more likely you are to create a name for yourself. J.R. Flatter [00:26:05]: It's one of the hardest things in the world is to niche down until you're one of 1. But that's your greater that's your quickest path to success. The more courage you have to niche down, the more likely you are to resonate in the marketplace. And so when you're having that conversation and you're doing your AIR, you're exploring what that noun descriptor might be for you, leaving an open mind because you might go in with a preconceived notion and then discover you were entirely wrong. It really wasn't that at all. And then you find a new noun descriptor to describe your coaching practice. But there are so many opportunities out there and so many different kinds of businesses that it's a necessity of building a successful b to b practice. Alright, my friend. J.R. Flatter [00:26:57]: Hope, when you and I are on our way to visit your grandfather, my father, for his 90th birthday party, leaving tomorrow at 0 dark 30 as they say. Looking forward to it. Well, that concludes this episode of building a coaching culture. I truly hope that this episode was helpful to you. If it was, be sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. Maybe stop and give us a rating or a review and share this podcast with someone who might find it helpful as well. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time.