The Value of being an Accredited Coach

Building a Coaching Culture - #91: The Value of being an Accredited Coach === Lucas Flatter: [00:00:00] what are some universal things or at least things that we see are valuable now that we expect to be valuable? 30 years in the future. And one of them is generally being able to connect with other people and, being able to convey your thoughts to other people. the communication aspect of coaching. J.R. Flatter: Hey, welcome back, everybody. J. R. Flatter here with my good friend, Lucas, Lucas Flatter: All right. J.R. Flatter: and this is Building a Coaching Culture. And, uh, what we want to [00:01:00] talk about in this session was is, accreditation, accreditation as a coach. why, what's the value, where, how, whom, all of the above. it's probably a conversation I have a dozen times a year, different people. we were talking earlier about on the left side of yes. one of the greatest challenges in coaching is to get people on the right side of yes, that they've said, yes, I want to coach or yes, I want to, learn to coach. so let's talk a little bit about that. just take a minute or two to define coaching because most everyone who's here has their own idea already, but just lay a baseline down. What is coaching? There's really two forms. There's this formal style where it's agreed upon time, agreed upon. Length of time together, [00:02:00] how often, laying out some goals and objectives and key results, perhaps. And then starting and doing it over whatever length of time. That's a formal coaching relationship, where the leader of your coaching is in the driver's seat. You, the coach, are helping them facilitate. discovery. Facilitate discovery of goals. What are my life's goals? Discovery of objectives. You know, what are some of the objectives between me and those goals? And then key results. What are some of the things I need to accomplish to ensure I accomplish my objectives so that I do end up in life where I want to end up? And then there's a coaching style of leadership and a coaching culture, less formal. You know, you have a coaching culture when that's just becomes the way you lead. You lead from a position of, I'm working with this person to help them grow as a leader. So the [00:03:00] questions I'm asking are coaching questions. Always aim towards the growth of the individual, the growth of the team. Differences from mentoring. Mentoring, I'm in the driver's seat. I'm deciding what the findings are, the conclusions are, and the recommendations are. When I'm coaching, I'm facilitating your discovery of findings, your discovery of conclusions and your own recommendations. What do I need to do next? What do we need to do next? there's a place for both, but it's not an either or. because there are times when you have been down that road a hundred times before and this is how it's worked, but now here we are, well into the 21st century and the world is changing so much, so fast. Does that 20th century mentoring style still fulfill the requirements of the 21st century world that we find ourselves?[00:04:00] And I think one of the biggest differences between the 21st and the 20th century between mentoring and coaching, years of experience matter less and less in a particular topic. Now, years of experience driving a car, that might matter a little more than, hey, I know how to use this particular technology and you don't. I mean, I'm 21 and you're 61. and so. There's a place for both and a need for both. So, technology and the speed of technology, age, experience, there's a mix. And so, it's not an either or discussion. but you've decided, or you're thinking about, you want to be part of that. You want to be a coach, or you want to get a coach. You know, what does that mean? what does the accreditation process look like? If I'm hiring a coach, do [00:05:00] they need an accreditation? If I want to become a coach, do I need an accreditation? So let's just talk about all those things. Lucas Flatter: yeah, I mean, on the first point on 21st century skills, it's like, like you mentioned, yeah, you can pick up some of these skills, but then a new technology will pop up or, you know, the job market might change, but what are some universal things or at least things that we see are valuable now that we expect to be valuable? 20, 30 years in the future. And one of them is being able to, you know, just generally being able to connect with other people and, and being able to convey your thoughts to other people. like the communication aspect of coaching. Nevermind the actual specific, specificity of coaching like as a skill, which I think is going to be valuable, but all the other things that go along with it, J.R. Flatter: you always do that at least once in every [00:06:00] session. You coach me at least once in every session. The communicative skills of coaching beyond the specificity of the topic, that's beautiful Lucas Flatter: you, you got that first try. Specificity. J.R. Flatter: I say the word a thousand times a year. Specificity. Can I drive you to specificity? I'm sure there's a word you use that I wouldn't say easily. So, let's start at zero and say you don't need anyone's permission to be a coach. you could go to the bookstore, buy a book on coaching, read it, start practicing what it says. Go form an LLC or an S Corp or not, do business as an individual and start coaching. You could do it today, and you'd be pretty darn good at it. Probably. If you followed the methods that the book outlined and you stuck to the principles and had a genuine interest in the growth of the individual [00:07:00] that you're working with, you'd probably be pretty good at it. going back to your guitar lessons, for anybody who doesn't know, Lurkus is, I don't know, do I say you're learning how to play guitar or you play guitar? Lucas Flatter: Got it right here. J.R. Flatter: Because I know one of our conversations a few weeks ago, it was, I can read, I'm well read, and I'm a scholar. Those were three legs on a journey of learning. And so, you could play guitar, what would be, what would be the steps in there? You're learning to play guitar, you could play guitar, and you're a master guitar player. Where are you at in that journey? Lucas Flatter: maestro. How do you say that? Maestro? J.R. Flatter: Mm hmm. Lucas Flatter: I, right now, I would say that this past year, now I can play guitar because the first couple, you know, like the first Steps are all like, oh, you can do this, you can do this, you can do this. Putting enough pieces together where you can, you know, just play. That, that's[00:08:00] definitely the middle level we're talking about, I think. J.R. Flatter: Yeah. So somewhere along that continuum, we're all in our coaching journey as well. If we call ourself a coach, if you go back to Atomic Habits and James Clear says, if you want to be something, you have to begin identifying as that something. and I are now weightlifters. If you don't know that, um, not bodybuilders. So, if you want to be, uh, identify as a coach, or someone that you're talking to identifies as a coach, they don't need anybody's permission to do that. But it's like theory versus practice, right? A lot of people learn to play guitar just because they have this natural ability and you might be a virtuoso and become a master guitar player and never take a single lesson. But the average human being. Not so much, right? I've known, I've been to your house and seen, [00:09:00] you know, some of your books and some of the tools that you're using to learn. And so I would draw that analogy back to an accreditation and is your coach coaching by ear or have they learned the fundamentals and are, can they read music or are they just playing by ear? for me, and for a lot of the world, that's very important. And that's what a coaching accreditation moment one tells me, this person can read music, this person has more than just read a book and hung out a shingle and said, I'm a coach. And so what's that worth? You know, it's worth what it's worth. If It doesn't matter to you. It doesn't matter to you. I think it matters to the marketplace. I think it matters to most of the customers you and I have. what are your thoughts on that analogy? Lucas Flatter: I think, um, yeah, I mean, even you could think about, like, personal, having a personal [00:10:00] trainer, or... having some method of getting feedback on your growth or like your skill that you're working towards, that's super essential because you could think like, Oh, I'm doing the right things. I'm making progress. And if your only feedback is from your clients, when you're coaching, like, wouldn't you rather have that be in like a safe, you know, setting then, then this person's now somewhat relying on you. And it's, it's happening, you know, and I would rather have a safety net when I'm, going through those growing pains. And, and second to that, having the motivation factor of somebody cares if I learn this skill, and it's not just You know, based on me and my clients, but somebody else is taking an interest in this. So, like, having that personal trainer might just be to tell you [00:11:00] to get on the treadmill, you know, just a little push. J.R. Flatter: yeah, and to be honest with you, you and I showing up at the gym together every morning is that little something. that gets me out of bed. I know you're waiting for me, and you know I'm going to be waiting for you. so, in academia, they call it the sheepskin effect. I doubt if it's true anymore, but original diplomas were printed on sheepskin. And so there's a nickname for diplomas. Sheepskin. Go get another sheepskin. So, bachelor's, master's, PhD. to some extent, to the market, your accreditation is... The Sheepskin Effect, that you have a certificate, you have someone other than yourself who says this person has the fundamental qualifications necessary to be a good coach. in the PhD world there's the acronym ABD, All But Dissertation, you're not a doctor until five people sign your dissertation.[00:12:00] and if you want to be a Ph. D., you better find five people who will sign your dissertation. I believe if you want to be a coach, you better go find a reputable program, more than just reading a book, and get that program to affirm that you are, in fact, fundamentally trained. In the knowledge, skills, and abilities of coaching. so that's all I'll say on that. Uh, with regard to the process of accreditation, you know, what does it take to get an accreditation? you and I have aligned ourselves with the International Coaching Federation. This global organization, forgive me how many languages they teach and coach in, but it's, But it's like 60 languages, if not even more. that they teach and coach. That's how global they are. and we've aligned ourselves and become accredited through the International Coaching Federation to educate coaches. And so, if you're going to become a [00:13:00] coach, and you're going to seek an accreditation, one of the things, first things I would ask myself is who's telling you that the program you're about to join is of value and respected in the world? a lot of universities teach coaching programs. A lot of companies teach coaching programs, but based upon which scholarship, based upon which experiences, and based upon which methods, for me and for us, that bona fides comes all through the International Coaching Federation. And I wouldn't say for better or worse, I would say for better. I've looked at the other coaching accreditation organizations out there, and I truly believe the ICF is the gold standard. We've been using them for years, and there's just simply nothing, in my humble opinion, that comes close to [00:14:00] matching. The depth and breadth of quality, thoroughness, effectiveness is the International Coaching Federation. But I'll, loosely use their five, steps to accreditation generically at first and then we'll get specific later. agnostically, at first and then specific later. So they break it down into education, coaching education, experience, so actually going out and coaching, mentoring, so being mentored by someone, and then a performance evaluation, sort of like a test at the end of the class, about a performance of you performing coaching, and then an examination, Beyond the performance exam and evaluation, but an actual sit [00:15:00] down and answer these questions on the fundamentals. And so those are the five steps, that's not even steps, the five areas of accreditation. Education, experience, mentor coaching, performance evaluation, and then... An examination itself. So if you're looking at a program or you're thinking of hiring a coach, those are some questions that you might ask them. Talk to me about your educational experience. Talk to me about how many hours of experience, how many years of experience do you have? How many customers, how many clients have you coached? Who other than yourself, what other human being who's as experienced or more experienced than you are, have you worked with that would validate that you are in fact the coach that you say you are? Has someone watched you coach and [00:16:00] said, giving you a thumbs up, hey, this person's good to go. And then finally, have you taken an examination? Other accreditations that one might take, a Program Management Professional, a SISB, the accreditation process is going to look pretty darn similar. So it's not foreign to coaching to have these kind of areas of requirement. Thoughts on your journey through that process? Lucas Flatter: I think, um, if you're wondering, like, if it would be of value, it's like, think about those things that you were listing, like, This is what you'll come away with and, compare that against, oh I could, how are you, like, how are you practically going to do that without some sort of formal process around it? Like, you're going to have to get somebody to evaluate you and then what are they, what standards are they using? So, it's, Thinking about whether you can [00:17:00] get all of that without the certification because we've talked about you know self learning with books and your own experience but you're getting a whole different set of the outcomes from this and that's guaranteed no matter you know no matter how talented you are you know J.R. Flatter: Yeah, I think from my own experiences, you know, I joke all the time, I have a comma PhD after my name, and one would expect I receive some education, one would expect I have experience in the area in which I studied, one would expect that I had a mentor, I had a chair of my doctoral committee, I had a doctoral committee, worked very closely with the school that I was studying through, we have, examinations where at the doctoral level, you answer your examination in a 30 page papers and you do, you know, anywhere from three to five of them over a certain period of time. and then the final [00:18:00] thing that you do is you do a defense of your dissertation. You stand in front of your committee and you defend the research that you've done. So, the process is not foreign to any other accreditation process. But let's take it a step further and now, rather than agnostically, let's talk about it, with regard to the International Coaching Federation. you and I and our organization are accredited. By the International Coaching Federation to train, let's say, educate coaches. So the first step, the education step, we've been accredited by the International Coaching Federation to educate coaches. There are different levels of accreditation that one can receive from the ICF. Associate Certified Coach, Professional Certified Coach, and Master Certified Coach. We are [00:19:00] accredited to provide the education for the first two. The Associate Certified Coach at 60 hours of education level. And a professional certified coach at 125 hours of education. And depending on how you consume that education, I've seen it done as quickly as six months, but usually takes anywhere from. Nine months to 18 months to get the level of education necessary, to get the associate certified coach level. And when you're talking about the professional certified coach could take anywhere from two to three years. So it's not a quick process. but it doesn't mean that once you have the fundamentals in place, once you have the education fundamentals in place, that you can't. and shouldn't start coaching. And actually the process to accreditation would [00:20:00] encourage you to go out and start coaching before you have your accreditation because the next step, the experience step, requires different hours of coaching to get the accreditation. So not only do you need 60 hours of education to get the associate certified coaching, you also need a hundred hours of coaching. Of which 80 percent of that coaching has to be paid. And so the International Coaching Federation wants us, wants their organization to create professional coaches. And so instead of allowing you to go get a hundred hours of pro bono coaching, which would produce in their opinion, and I agree with them, a much Less qualified coach. They require that that 80 percent of that [00:21:00] coaching be paid coaching. So while you're gathering your 60 hours of education, we encourage you very strongly to go out. And to borrow a phrase from our good friend Lee Collier, coach in the wild, while you're receiving your education. So it's a simultaneous, dual track. Receive your education while you're building your coaching hours. the third, category, mentor coaching. The International Coaching Federation requires a minimum of 10 hours of mentorship from a professionally certified coach. So someone of my accreditation or higher, a master certified coach can also be a mentor to mentor you in groups of 10 or less so that they really get close eyes on [00:22:00] visibility of your coaching. To make sure you are in fact ready to go out into the world with an ICF accreditation next to your name. And the way that works is seven of those sessions are in a group of ten or fewer, and three of those sessions are actually one on one with the mentor. So you're in a room coaching for the mentor one on one, so that's the level of observation that you need to have in order to be ready to go out into the world with an ICF accreditation. and scrutiny that the International Coaching Federation requires to, in fact, put one of their accreditations next to your name. Couldn't agree with that philosophy any stronger. Having a mentor, and then that, that level of scrutiny is absolutely essential to ensure the standard of excellence that the International Coaching Federation is seeking and [00:23:00] that you and I. At Flatter or Seeking. one of the things, uh, additional that we're required to do is a performance evaluation of your coaching. we choose to do that performance evaluation at Flatter. During mentor coaching, and so in those three one on one sessions, we will be evaluating your coaching while you're doing your one on one sessions, and we're giving you written and verbal feedback on that performance in real time immediately after the coaching session. So you'll invite a leader in to coach. They'll coach for some period of time. The ICF says anywhere from 20 to 60 minutes. Usually for us, it's 20 to 30 minutes. We'll excuse the invited leader and then you'll receive live written and verbal feedback from your mentor.[00:24:00] Right then and there and get a passing or a failing score on that performance. Usually by the time you're in that phase of your education and experience and you're gonna do just fine. There are gonna be some areas of focus, go out and get some more experience doing this or that, pause a little more here, don't interrupt, you know, all of those nuanced fundamentals. But by the time you get to the fourth phase of the accreditation, the performance evaluation, you're pretty ready, if you're in a good program. And then final, the fifth step, the exam itself, neither the ICF nor FLATR has anything to do with that examination, in the execution of the examination, I should say. The ICF writes the examination, but an independent third party watches you take the [00:25:00] examination, scores the examination, and gives you your results. and there's a very practical and valuable reason why it's done that way. Before, to no fault of their own, just the growth of coaching and the growth of their organization, the International Coaching Federation was proctoring their own examinations. Well, as it turns out in the accreditation world, that's a no no. You can't say, Lucas is good to go. And give him an exam that says he's good to go and then give him an accreditation and be recognized by the international accrediting bodies. And so one of the changes that the ICF's made in the last 12 months is that they are now using an independent third party proctor. So those are the five steps to accreditation. you can receive your education in any [00:26:00] number of ways. I will tell you, the ICF allows multiple paths to your accreditation. I don't say this on behalf of Flatter, but all of the first four phases have to be accomplished under the same organization for you to apply. Through either Level 1 or Level 2 accreditation. If you go on the ICF website, you'll see Level 1 is associated with Associate Certified Coach, and Level 2 is associated with Professional Certified Coach. And I, again, I strongly agree with this methodology that The ICF wants you to receive your education, your experience, your mentoring, and your performance evaluation all under the same umbrella of the same organization, so that that [00:27:00] organization can then say, Through your performance evaluation, through your successful completion of mentor coaching, this person and your education, this person is ready to be an ICF coach. The only part that falls outside of the flatter and the ICF umbrella is the examination itself. And again, that's for the accreditation. You can do multiple paths. You could receive your education from one place, your mentor coaching from another place, your performance evaluation from another place, It won't be accepted in either level one or level two, uh, through the ICF. It'll be an entirely different path. And if you do all of your steps one through four in the same organization, you're going to get an answer within hours. If you do it in the other path, it's going to take months because someone at the [00:28:00] ICF, you'll send a recording of your coaching performance and you'll send the transcript of your coaching performance and some human being at the International Coaching Federation will need to review that. and say yes or no, you performed at a successful level or not. And that just takes time. The ICF accredits organizations, us being one of them, to say you can do that on our behalf. So when we do your performance evaluation, when we conduct your mentor coaching, when we provide our education, it's all aligned to the same level of expertise that the ICF would do. If you send it to them and they did the review, which again, they say on their website takes anywhere from 18 to 22 weeks. Lucas Flatter: yeah, and I think that's a strong argument for, you know, you want to, you [00:29:00] want to go on that path where you're not doing extra hours of training, and I think If you're wondering, oh, 2RL, is that for me? Like, I think there's plenty of hours to listen to you and I on this podcast and other places where you can get a feel for our, what stories we're telling and, you know, our values and all that. J.R. Flatter: Yeah, that's a great point. Um, if you go to our website, you could see some testimonials from people who've gone through the program. We record the graduation ceremonies and so today we have literally two hours of testimonials of you know the experiences of the the people who went through the program. It's a pretty powerful transformational experience that we provide. any closing thoughts as we, uh, get ready to wrap up? Anything I've missed? Lucas Flatter: Yeah, I mean, I guess, um, just to sum that, like, what our [00:30:00] perspective is, like that slide that we mentioned, um, it was on a different episode where we're talking about this experience will transform your life professionally and personal, and So thinking about, you know, the holistic benefits of coaching and not just saying like, this is coaching in a vacuum, but what is it going to do for you in terms of, you know, your relationships at work and at home and everything? J.R. Flatter: Yeah, amazing, amazing observation, that you're right. The fourth slide of every deck, or every course we teach, is this journey is going to change the path of your personal and professional life, and the way it. does that and then the this goes to the beauty of coaching the beauty of coaching is it uses the human brain the way the human brain naturally works. And so if I come up with an idea and I own the [00:31:00] idea the likelihood that I'm going to accept and then go execute that idea is exponentially higher. So in mentoring again, there's a time for mentoring and in time for coaching. It's my idea and my recommendation. And you're going to look at me and say, yeah, that, that might work. And I might go try that. but never with the same enthusiasm that if it were your idea, but as a coach or someone being coached and the transformational experience that it will take you through. it's hard to describe the, the guest speaker to graduation brought in unsolicited testimonials from people who had been coached and, you know, the word transformational, the words life changing, this happened at the perfect time in my life, coaching or being coached teaches you a different way of listening. It teaches you a different way of asking questions. It teaches you a [00:32:00] different way of problem solving. It strengthens your confidence and what we might call efficacy and your willingness and ability to go back to David Bowie's quote of being uncomfortable in water that's just a little deeper than you're comfortable in. All of those things, That the coaching journey will change whether you're being coached or you're learning to coach, yeah, it's a transformational experience cohort after cohort after cohort, we hear the same things, becoming a coach and, and therefore purposefully creating those life changing experiences for people. is tremendously fulfilling. I couldn't in strong enough words describe what it's like to be that facilitator of that discovery. and once you've done it, your coaching will never be the same. And in In every program [00:33:00] we teach, even the 30 hour bootcamps, almost every student has that transformational discovery moment where they've created real change in another human being's life. And so from a servant leadership perspective, as a style of leadership in creating a 21st century culture, coaching and leading with a coaching style of leadership, becoming a 21st century employer of choice, all starts. With this path to accreditation, I don't think All right, brother. we're at that time again. [00:34:00]