Coaching Skeptics Into Your Strongest Advocates

Building a Coaching Culture - #104: Coaching Skeptics Into Your Strongest Advocates === J.R. Flatter [00:00:46]: Hey. Welcome back, everybody. JR Flatter here, and as always with my co host, Lucas. Lucas Flatter [00:00:52]: Hello. J.R. Flatter [00:00:52]: Alright. So this topic is something that's always on my mind. It has been since my first hour of coach education for myself, and I see it all the time. We just graduated a 30 hour boot camp yesterday, and at least 3 of the graduates were volun told to come to coach education. And so this idea of being a volatile is something at the forefront of my mind and something that as I'm starting to write my next book, I'm thinking long and hard about. So if you don't mind, I'm going to jump into that topic. Just some streams of consciousness. I don't really have a framework in mind. J.R. Flatter [00:01:42]: And I'm where I am working with a consultant to help me clarify and keep moving forward. You you all might have met Brian Elwood. Yeah. Nail your niche. Mhmm. As our British friends say, niche. He has now matured his coaching practice into helping people write books. And so I'm working with him. J.R. Flatter [00:02:04]: So he's helping me clarify, like any good coach, discover what is it I'm actually wanna talk about. And so I think this session will be informational, but it'll also be a good discovery session for me to further articulate what exactly are we trying to say and to whom. If you remember back to Brian's book, Nail Your Niche, it talks about your why from Simon Sinek. But then your to whom is just as important. There are 8,000,000 people in the world or 8,000,000,000 people in the world. You only wanna try to coach point 0 6 sigma of them. And not even 6, probably 7 sigma. So that's the voice that the book needs to have is to whom. J.R. Flatter [00:02:56]: And then the QER, what's your quantifiable end result? When you and I educate coaches, they get a credibly badge. They get a certificate. The International Coaching Federation gives them an accreditation, awards them, doesn't give them. They they earn it. And I know this is a topic you and I have talked about indirectly several times. When you were in your coaching education, I know it came up. So I'll pause there to see what your opening thoughts are because I got tons on my mind to think about and talk about. Lucas Flatter [00:03:28]: Mhmm. Something, that's been on my mind lately in in terms of, like, messaging, marketing, communication. And you mentioned it a lot, the kind of whispers or, like, subtext or what's unsaid in an explicit message. So for example, like, we just went to a new restaurant in downtown Fredericksburg, and I'm picking up on, okay, this is the atmosphere of this place. But I wonder sometimes if people are thinking about the end result, like the aesthetic, the atmosphere, or the Gen z, or younger people say, like, the vibe. Are people thinking about the vibe or the atmosphere and then working backwards to the explicit messaging? So I guess my question is, do you have a kind of, like, aesthetic or feeling that you wanna go for with the book? J.R. Flatter [00:04:23]: Yeah. Great question. Great coaching question. You know, and I was thinking about that this morning. So it's it's not ironic. It's actually expected you would ask that kind of question because you are a coach. I think voluntold has a bit of negative aspect to it, and it doesn't necessarily it isn't restricted to coaching. It's it's part of leadership. J.R. Flatter [00:04:48]: It's part of our adulthood. We find ourselves confronted with requirements that aren't at the top of our priority list. And so we even voluntold ourselves, right, all the time. Every morning when you and I show up at the gym, there's a bit of voluntold there. We promised each other we're gonna be there. We need to get back that back on track. My travels been inhibiting that. In leadership, you do a lot of things. J.R. Flatter [00:05:18]: You're confronted with a lot. I was just coaching someone, and they said, other duties as a side. Well, you're laughing because you have other duty as a side. You're a computer scientist, coach, proposal writer. I'm sure you have a a few other things on the list that I'm not deeply aware of. So I'm wondering if there's a positive way to say volatile. It could carry some negative connotation. And I say, like I said already, once graduated a boot camp earlier this week, and we started a new cohort of our 80 hour course this week simultaneously. J.R. Flatter [00:06:02]: So it's been a really busy week. You know, the message is look forward and grow. Look forward and grow. And one of the things I've realized in my own maturation, because I'm on lifelong journey of learning just like you are, and all of our listeners and viewers. I prefer to educate. I need to coach and I want to coach. I love coaching. But I think my calling, if you'll give me that, you talk about the vibe and generations that think about spirituality in many ways, in faith, out of faith combinations. J.R. Flatter [00:06:39]: I think, you know, human beings, we have all we all have spirituality connection to the world, to the earth. That's my call. Education. I love educating coaches, leaders, my grandchildren now. So I want it to be an education book and not an academic book. So educational, spiritual, positive. This would be the vibe I'm looking for. Lucas Flatter [00:07:10]: Yeah. It's I guess there's always a little friction. I mean, last night, I was trying to teach Declan something, and I'm like, you know, you can sit in your room and just think about it for a couple of minutes. And he comes back out, and he's like, I thought about it. I'm like, great. But it's like I guess there's moments where you kinda pick and choose. Like, is this a moment where, you know, it's gonna be brushed off? Or is this a moment where we're gonna take the problem head on? And I guess that probably shows up with the voluntold people. It's like, how much do you wanna, like, bring that to the forefront or just let them observe and change their mind over time? What's your approach there? J.R. Flatter [00:07:58]: Yeah. Great question. So one of the challenges of being a coach educator or even an ambassador of coaching. So these students that we graduated this week and the ones that just started their journey, the 13 week journey, we tell them all, you're going to become ambassadors of coaching and ambassadors of a coaching style of leadership. And so we want you to be a read Benjamin Netanyahu's biography this summer. One of the quotes I remember is even in the darkest place, a single candle can provide magnificent illumination. He's not quite sure where that comes from. Some people think it's a reference back to the Bible. J.R. Flatter [00:08:42]: He thought it might be come from the Jewish traditions. But irrespective, it's a a magnificent metaphor. Right? So we all have that opportunity to be that candle. And so until people learn about coaching, see coaching, and then give each other coaching, which is what we do in our education programs, It's really hard for them to have that moment. And so I I ask all of our new students, the boot camp this week, the cohort that just started this week, get out a piece of paper. I'm gonna tell you something. I want you to write down your immediate thoughts, fold it up, and then look at it when your education program is finished and see how fulfilled the statement is. And the statement that I make every time, it's slide 4 day 1, every program we teach, a coaching journey will change your personal and professional life. J.R. Flatter [00:09:38]: The way you think, the way you decide, the way you lead, the way you partner, the way you ask questions. So to some extent, and I know I was when I went to my coaching education program, I volunteered myself to go. I said, I've heard about this coaching thing. Customers are beginning to ask about it. This seems to be the most credible program around. Let me go check this out. You and I are both graduates of Leadership Fredericksburg, and I was the same way. I wanted to be a mentor at Leadership Fredericksburg, so I called the president of the of the chamber. J.R. Flatter [00:10:16]: And she said, yeah. I'd love to have you as a mentor, but why don't you go through the program first? And I'm thinking, I have a common PhD in leadership development. Why would I wanna go to that program? Yeah. I'll do it. And so I went, but very quickly transformed from a volunteer to a volunteer. It's an amazing program. If anybody in the Fredericksburg region gets a chance to go, highly, highly recommend it. You're a mentor now. J.R. Flatter [00:10:40]: Right? You were last year. Lucas Flatter [00:10:41]: Last year. Yeah. J.R. Flatter [00:10:42]: Yeah. I think this idea of being a volatile is all around us. And this isn't necessarily associated with coaching. But as I am a coach and a coach educator and writing a book, it's necessarily gonna be focused on educating coaches about this idea. But to get back to the foundation of your original question, I told you I was gonna have streams of consciousness. You know, how do you get people over the threshold? Well, I think first and foremost, you believe in your craft. I strongly believe in our coaching education programs. I strongly believe in the core values and core competencies and ethics of the coaching practice. J.R. Flatter [00:11:27]: And we begin teaching those. We begin educating these adult human beings. And in a 4 day boot camp, 30 hours, The first day is always dedicated to the fundamentals, and I usually teach most of that first day. We have facilitators all over the world that teach in different geographic locations. But I try to schedule my calendar such that I could teach those fundamentals. It's getting harder and harder as we keep growing. But I know in the back of my mind, and I educate our facilitators, that first day, you're gonna have probably 5050. 50% doubters and 50%. J.R. Flatter [00:12:13]: Yeah. I've heard about this, and I'm I'm on board. I'm an early adopter. And that's highly anecdotal. It might be higher. It might be lower. But I do know you could tell by facial expressions. You could tell by the questions they ask because it's a very participative experiential experience methodology. J.R. Flatter [00:12:35]: And so I'm just patient, and I have efficacy, self efficacy, confidence in the program such that by the end of the 1st day, they've seen us coach 3 or 4 times. So the 1st day, the facilitator coaches other facilitators. So they get to see an accredited coach coaching another accredited coach, begin to see what what it actually looks like. Now oftentimes, even in those coach to coach sessions, there's real discovery. They begin to see what it looks like, the arc of a session, the arc of a relationship. We begin introducing the competencies. We talk about the ethics and core values that first day. And by the end of the day, they do the first case study. J.R. Flatter [00:13:27]: We have several case studies that we weave in, lessons, tools, and case studies, lessons on coaching, tools that you use in coaching, and then case studies of real world coaching. The second day, it's all about them coaching, but just tidbits. 10 minutes in session with 1 on one feedback. One of our methodologies is one thing you loved, one thing you thought might have been done a little better or made you scratch your head and wonder about. Because feedback's a gift. We grow from feedback. The 3rd day is all about coaching. Coach, coach, coach. J.R. Flatter [00:14:07]: The last 3 hours of the 3rd day, they coach the arc, as we call it, an entire 50 minute session. And we do 3 of those in a row. So they coach for 50 minutes. They are coached for 50 minutes, and they're coach of the coach for 50 minutes. And then they rotate, then they rotate. So 3 times. And then the 4th day is all about sewing it up. We have a schedule, but we rarely stick to it. J.R. Flatter [00:14:34]: We graduate on time. We start on time, but it's a 6 hour day. We do a working lunch so they can graduate early, get back to their lives. Long way of saying, and I see it again and again and again. Oftentimes, the strongest doubters become our greatest advocates across the arc of that experience. So that's one of the themes. I think it might might actually be the subtitle. I don't think voluntold's gonna survive in the title. J.R. Flatter [00:15:06]: Probably no way to say it positively, because the idea is clearly gonna be embedded in the book. But the subtitle is gonna be something akin to transforming doubters into your greatest advocates or coaching your doubters into your greatest advocates. I saw it happen several times last week. I saw it happen 100 of times over the last several years. I've coached through, and they've become some of my strongest So I have really strong efficacy that powerful coaching can transform your strongest doubters into your strongest advocates. Now pause there because I I could go on forever. Lucas Flatter [00:15:57]: Well, I was thinking, the first stage of the hero's journey, like the, you know, the classic archetypal hero's journey is always refusing the call, like, saying, you know, I'm not ready. I can't do this. This isn't for me. J.R. Flatter [00:16:15]: Absolutely spot on. I'm probably aging myself, but the movie Platoon, at the very end of Platoon, when the protagonist, not the hero, but the main character is flying out wounded. This guy was always carrying a walking stick, and he's beaten his chest with his rifle after a huge battle. And he was made platoon sergeant, and he's like, no. This is this is absolutely not what I wanna do. I don't want this leadership job. 1 of the students that became one of the strongest advocates pushed back hard at the beginning. I mean, she was very vocal. J.R. Flatter [00:16:55]: I don't get this. This is not what I came here for. By the time she finished, and she's not by any means finished with her journey. Part of the journey to an ICF coaching accreditation is mentor coaching. She signed up for mentor coaching. She signed up to our evening live coach training. She's just starting her journey. Not that it's relevant to this conversation, but most people's long pole in their accreditation journey is the 100 hours of coaching, getting over that threshold. J.R. Flatter [00:17:29]: But we have a global network of peer to peer coaches that we can plug people into. We're gonna plug her into that. So I just see it again and again. Lucas Flatter [00:17:40]: I guess in essentially, it's I'm just I always go back to, like, movie references and quotes. In The Matrix, it's like, I can only show you the door. You have to walk through it yourself. Or, you know, in order for a hero to realize that they're a hero, they have to believe in their own abilities. So it's almost like you have to facilitate this belief, but you can't put a belief on somebody else. J.R. Flatter [00:18:09]: No. Absolutely right. I wrote decades ago in my doctoral dissertation. So you have to do a literature review. And you're required to read the literature of your topic. And then to graduate, you have to add to the literature. So that's the secret sauce of writing a successful dissertation is you have to add something of previously wasn't there. And so you're reading the body of literature to understand your field of study. J.R. Flatter [00:18:43]: And hopefully, I did my doctoral committee proud of describing what they required me. They fired me only once, by the way. Lucas Flatter [00:18:53]: You got back? J.R. Flatter [00:18:54]: Version 8 finally got through. That's another story for another time. There were 2 things that I discovered in the literature that were pervasive throughout leadership literature that I couldn't give to someone. I couldn't make them any smarter. I could give them knowledge. I could give them experience. But the brain's working like it's working pretty much the day you're bored. Your IQ remains pretty consistent throughout your life. J.R. Flatter [00:19:23]: Not good, bad, or indifferent. It just is. I've recognized a long time ago, I'm not Einstein. I'm not a visionary who's gonna change the path of the world. I'm a coach who can change the path of people's lives and groups of people that come to our education programs. So that's one thing that you can't be given. You certainly can make up for that depending on where you where you fall on that continuum of brilliance with other characteristics. And the other characteristic I can't give you is drive. J.R. Flatter [00:19:55]: I can't make you driven. Like, your analogy of walking through your the door, you have to decide you wanna walk through this door. So the learnency gives that we do, the 30 hour boot camps that we do with voluntary tolls coming. It remind me to talk about a sponsored environment because I think that's where most voluntolds come from. So I thought long and hard about my own definition of coaching, and I continue to think about what it is because I get asked about it a 100 times a year, a 1000 times a year. But I think our part of our role is coaching, if not the entirety of our role of coaching, is to awaken the drive in our leader that we're coaching so they can achieve their own vision. So it's a very complex definition in one sentence that requires at least a chapter to fulfill. So that's gonna be a chapter of this book. J.R. Flatter [00:20:56]: But you have to discover and awaken your drive, and you and I as coaches can help facilitate that. You talk about Declan all the time, where he's going to be 30 years from now and how much influence you can have that but also how much is out of your control. He's 4, nearly 5, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong. Lucas Flatter [00:21:20]: Oh, he's, Yeah. He's gonna be 5 in June. J.R. Flatter [00:21:23]: In June. Right. He's already has this magnificent personality of which you and your bride are influencing at the margins, but largely that comes from within, what he chooses to do with his life. I think one is this. I wanna write a book on parenting. I'm still only 40 years into my experiment, so I don't feel qualified yet. But I think and I'm not a psychologist. I don't pretend to be 1. J.R. Flatter [00:21:53]: I think you have 10 years to influence the path of his life, and you're halfway there already. I forget why I read this, but by the time a child's 9, they've spent 75% of the time they ever will spend with you. And by the time they're 12, I think it jumps up to, like, 95% of the time they'll ever spend with you, because it's literally 247 for these first. So if you're gonna influence the path of a child's life, you have a decade. But, again, I only have 4 data points that I've intimately in now, 11. So we'll see how it turns out. Maybe when I'm, like, 80, I'll write Lucas Flatter [00:22:35]: that book. Yeah. J.R. Flatter [00:22:36]: Maybe you'll write it. Lucas Flatter [00:22:37]: They're gonna take one look at us and be like, oh, we're not we're not gonna take advice from. J.R. Flatter [00:22:42]: Well, you know, this is something that I just learned. I forget where I read it. Oh, I know where I read it. It's from a very controversial author, so I'll keep that secret. But, he talks about the biological instinct to want to get as far as we can from our parents when we're 15 to 17 or 18. And then it's all has to do with broadening the gene pool. I thought when I read that, oh my god. What a magnificent observation. Lucas Flatter [00:23:16]: It's like, like, yeah, like an instinctual like, it's like it forces innovation in a way and new ideas and exploration. J.R. Flatter [00:23:25]: You think about all the frustrations that parents go through because of that biological instinct and not knowing that. I don't know if it provides any peace to anyone. Lucas Flatter [00:23:35]: I think, I also read along with that, or I might have heard it from somebody else. But that's when, like, adolescents are seeking, like, other adult influences. So I think, like, maybe you just facilitate that and be, you know, oh, uncle can talk to you about this because you're not gonna listen to me. J.R. Flatter [00:23:57]: Yeah. Uncle, sensei, coach, and any negative influences begin to seep into their world, potential negative influences, but we digress. Lucas Flatter [00:24:09]: I like that early adopter idea because it's so, like, ingrained in, like, technology. Like, why do the early adopters jump on board when they know, you know, there's gonna be challenges with the technology? It's not gonna be cost effective. You're potentially, like, testing a product that's not gonna be successful and nobody else is gonna be interested in. So I think, maybe, like, those people that are just on board immediately, they're thinking, oh, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna experience these frustrations and challenges, and I don't care if, you know, there's negative aspects. And the skeptic, maybe they're more interested in their current spot. Like, oh, I'm interested in my current job. Maybe the idea is that you can bring this new knowledge and this new skill to the current status quo. Like, if that's what's so important to you, like, where you are right now, think about how valuable it's gonna be to have this new skill, you know? J.R. Flatter [00:25:17]: Yeah. And I think that's part of the conversation of transforming. And I'm gonna use your word skeptics. How to coach your skeptics into your strongest advocates. Well, that concludes this episode of building a coaching culture. I truly hope that this episode was helpful to you. If it was, be sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. Maybe stop and give us a rating or a review and share this podcast with someone who might find it helpful as well. J.R. Flatter [00:25:48]: Thanks again, and we'll see you next time.